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Written on: 21. 03. 2013 [21:30]
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citrizin
Abolfazl
Topic creator
registered since: 04.10.2012
Posts: 19
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Hi every body
I want to know what is the difference between tcp and "iso tcp"
I have already sent bytes over tcp in MODBUS protocol, can I use the same hardware to send bytes in PROFIBUS protocol?
I'm using module Siemens in DAQ section. I see different types of controllers like :iso tcp, iso tcp243, CIF PB and ADS. I think the nearest one to my available hardware is ISO TCP but I can not establish any connection between oscada and a remote computer.
Does anybody know what's the problem?
Thanks
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Written on: 22. 03. 2013 [08:33]
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roman
Roman Savochenko
Moderator Contributor Developer
registered since: 12.12.2007
Posts: 3750
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"citrizin" wrote:
I want to know what is the difference between tcp and "iso tcp"
"TCP" is world-wide transport level protocol.
"iso tcp" is specific application level protocol, mostly closed, by Siemens GMBH.
"citrizin" wrote:
I have already sent bytes over tcp in MODBUS protocol, can I use the same hardware to send bytes in PROFIBUS protocol?
There you can not. For PROFIBUS you need to use the expensive comunication processors or converters but specific, closed, realization hardware, transport and aplication parts of PROFIBUS.
"citrizin" wrote:
I'm using module Siemens in DAQ section. I see different types of controllers like :iso tcp, iso tcp243, CIF PB and ADS. I think the nearest one to my available hardware is ISO TCP but I can not establish any connection between oscada and a remote computer.
DAQ.Siemens in general dedicate for connection to Siemens GMBH S7 PLC and not to abstract computers. Read closely the document: http://wiki.oscada.org/HomePageEn/Doc/Siemens
Learn, learn and learn better than work, work and work.
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Written on: 22. 03. 2013 [08:56]
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citrizin
Abolfazl
Topic creator
registered since: 04.10.2012
Posts: 19
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"roman" wrote:
DAQ.Siemens in general for connection to Siemens GMBH S7 PLC and not to abstract computers.
Yes you are right. What I do is to run a virtual TCP server (using a software named "socket test") and start listening to a specific port (for example 102) and then in oscada I try to establish the connection with that server. Doing so, I must be able to see the bytes which are sent from oscada to a Siemens PLC. Is it right?
The only hardware I use is a LAN cable and two PCs. You mean I need to have additional hardware drivers?
I'd expect transmitting some bytes from TCP socket (or maybe serial ports) without using any additional hardware. Is it possible?
As you may have guessed in the next phase I'm going to put a micro controller instead of that server and make oscada and my micro to communicate though PROFIBUS protocol.
Thanks for your patience
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Written on: 22. 03. 2013 [17:01]
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roman
Roman Savochenko
Moderator Contributor Developer
registered since: 12.12.2007
Posts: 3750
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"citrizin" wrote:
"roman" wrote:
DAQ.Siemens in general for connection to Siemens GMBH S7 PLC and not to abstract computers.
Yes you are right. What I do is to run a virtual TCP server (using a software named "socket test") and start listening to a specific port (for example 102) and then in oscada I try to establish the connection with that server. Doing so, I must be able to see the bytes which are sent from oscada to a Siemens PLC. Is it right?
And your virtual TCP server support any protocol? For any connection establish the server need support protocol which been requested to it.
"citrizin" wrote:
I'd expect transmitting some bytes from TCP socket (or maybe serial ports) without using any additional hardware. Is it possible?
For such experiments use UserProtocol: http://wiki.oscada.org/HomePageEn/Doc/UserProtocol
Or Open protocols like ModBus when you can connect from one PC with OpenSCADA to second PC also with OpenSCADA, read QuickStart about its: http://wiki.oscada.org/HomePageEn/Doc/QuickStart
Or send manual your requests: http://wiki.oscada.org/HomePageEn/Doc/ProgrammManual/part4/files?get=subsys_tr_mod_tr_otr_req_en.png
"citrizin" wrote:
As you may have guessed in the next phase I'm going to put a micro controller instead of that server and make oscada and my micro to communicate though PROFIBUS protocol.
PROFIBUS is only serial bus and is not Ethernet/TCP!
Learn, learn and learn better than work, work and work.
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Written on: 22. 03. 2013 [19:17]
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citrizin
Abolfazl
Topic creator
registered since: 04.10.2012
Posts: 19
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"roman" wrote:
And your virtual TCP server support any protocol? For any connection establish the server need support protocol which been requested to it.
That's exactly why I started my question! I'm not sure whether it supports iso tcp or not and I wanted to make sure are iso tcp and tcp the same protocol? and to know that if any additional hardware is required for iso tcp?
"roman" wrote:
PROFIBUS is only serial bus and is not Ethernet/TCP!
Then why there is "iso tcp"?! I think PROFIBUS is a protocol. a protocol that defines the arrangement of bytes in order to transmit a message. This protocol has also defined the hardware based on which the transmission is possible. But this protocol can also be run over TCP. Serial or TCP are just a route for transmitting bytes. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
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Written on: 23. 03. 2013 [20:23]
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almaz
Almaz Karimov
Contributor
registered since: 25.09.2008
Posts: 516
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"citrizin" wrote:
I think PROFIBUS is a protocol.
Profibus - closed protocol.
"citrizin" wrote:
a protocol that defines the arrangement of bytes in order to transmit a message.
Not everyone knows the location of bytes in closed protocols.
"citrizin" wrote:
Serial or TCP are just a route for transmitting bytes.
Here, you are absolutely right. Higher transport run any protocol with a known location bytes.
"citrizin" wrote:
I'm wrong.
164%. Profibus can not be used as a server without having access to the specifications of the protocol.
[This article was edited 1 times, at last 23.03.2013 at 20:44.]
21 век - век повсеместной автоматизации. Главное - во благо всем людям.
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Written on: 24. 03. 2013 [20:52]
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citrizin
Abolfazl
Topic creator
registered since: 04.10.2012
Posts: 19
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Thanks for your nice answer
By the way I'm not going to discuss about details of PROFIBUS or any protocol.
The only question that I still have is that
Can I send a PROFIBUS based message using my LAN cable?
I does not matter that I can not decode this message, I just want to receive some bytes at the other end of my cable. No additional hardware is available, just a LAN cable.
details:
I think if this is possible, I should use ISO TCP in the configuration of oscada. the other end of LAN cable is connected to a micro-controller acting as a TCP server and able to receive TCP bytes.
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Written on: 24. 03. 2013 [23:08]
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almaz
Almaz Karimov
Contributor
registered since: 25.09.2008
Posts: 516
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"citrizin" wrote:
The only question that I still have is that
Can I send a PROFIBUS based message using my LAN cable?
I does not matter that I can not decode this message, I just want to receive some bytes at the other end of my cable.
To send a Profibus-based message in the network must somehow encrypt the message. Can not be encrypted because of the closed protocol Profibus.
"citrizin" wrote:
No additional hardware is available, just a LAN cable.
Can not encrypt and decrypt messages to Profibus network without additional hardware. It is written:
http://wiki.oscada.org/HomePageEn/Doc/Siemens?v=u7o#h870-2
21 век - век повсеместной автоматизации. Главное - во благо всем людям.
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Written on: 25. 03. 2013 [10:54]
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citrizin
Abolfazl
Topic creator
registered since: 04.10.2012
Posts: 19
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Well
to sum it up you mean that I need a LAN cable plus some hardware (maybe CP243).
Then oscada sends some information to this hardware, the hardware encrypts the data in PROFIBUS format and sends it to PLC?
Agree?
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Written on: 25. 03. 2013 [12:51]
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almaz
Almaz Karimov
Contributor
registered since: 25.09.2008
Posts: 516
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Yes. Through CP243 OpenSCADA can work as a client, and read-write data to PLC, located in the Profibus network after CP243. OpenSCADA is only a client and will not Profibus-server and not be able to encode-decode format Profibus to other networks.
Between the two networks Profibus after two CP243, decoded data transfer is possible. Profibus is only after the CP243. OpenSCADA or OpenSCADA two computers over the network works with its open protocol.
21 век - век повсеместной автоматизации. Главное - во благо всем людям.
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